During the 1228, it would appear that that it same Clemence and her partner Nicholas was indeed chosen to get child custody from Joanna and Llywelyn's child Susanna (aged on fourteen?). seems to be into the youngster to-be raised during the a secure and you may secure ecosystem toward window of opportunity for a better education. the outcome was indeed becoming leftover out-of their. The new custodial grant try because of the King Henry III, half-sister so you can Joanna and 50 % of-bro so you can Susanna, yet the decree entitled Susanna, Henry's ‘niece' and you can Joanna, Henry's ‘sister'.'

A concern now presents alone. That you can answer is you to definitely Clemence's father, Philip le Boteler is French, rather than English. It absolutely was very common at that time for all of us to hang services into the both sides of your own Channel. This ed their dilies compared to English parents during this period.

Truly the only book in which I have found a reference to Clemence Pinel – partner of Henry Pinel (other than Charles Cawley in the Wikipedia) is during Alison Weir's ‘England's Royal Group: The entire Genealogy and family history (London, 1989).' So it book are detailed by you to genealogist since the ‘not as totally annotated.' My own trawl from the genealogy message boards receive scant site towards the Pinel family unit members, along with Clemence's husband Henry Pinel. Multiple entries advise that Joanna is the brand new child off Henry Pinel and his wife Clemence, but zero offer, capable of being checked, are given. I am therefore lured to write off which lady out of subsequent investigation. I am able to be most incorrect.

In the event that Joanna was the fresh new daughter regarding Clemence ce Boteler, from, appear to an enthusiastic English home, how can we identify exactly what Joanna is creating into the France whenever King John delivered getting their unique during the 1203?

Clemence de- Fougers is actually the cousin away from Richard de- Hommet, Constable regarding Normandy, and you will Geoffrey de- Fougeres. Their dad was William du Fougers. I've zero go out away from beginning (or demise) from Clemence, however, she was hitched prior to 1200 (no time available) to help you Alan de Dinan, and you can is actually prominent adequate to get married in October 1200, due to the fact their second husband, Ranulph de- Blundeville, Earl out of Chester and you may Vicomte d'Avranches, recently divorced (marriage annulled?) off Constance of Brittany.

In 1189, aged seventeen, Ranulph had been married to Constance of Brittany the widow of Henry 11 ‘s son Geoffrey, and the mother of Arthur of Brittany with whom King John contested the succession. Henry did not trust the Countess and wanted her married to a magnate he could trust. The marriage gave Ranulph control of the earldom of Richmond and the duchy of Brittany, but it was not a success (see subject 6. below). The couple had no issue and they separated. It was rumoured one Earl Ranulph separated Constance for having had an affair which have Queen John!

Definitely, perform so it Clemence become mommy of Joanna, she’d additionally be the brand new granny from Susanna, even though there is no cause to trust the younger Joanna knew, now, that there try a family group dating, when the

While the Clemence de- Fougers try daughter and you will sis off Constables out of Normandy, It is envision Bor in Turkey women dating white men likely that John, Count out-of Mortain, inside Normandy, realized off her [and maybe *knew* their own, before their wedding in order to Ranulph]. A close link with John you are going to define what might see a very useful second marriage getting Clemence in order to Ranulph.

Ranulph, six th Earl out of Chester yet not, is actually a robust baron and it beggars faith, at the very least for me personally, he could have recognized a wedding in order to a lady whom had had a well-known affair and a following youngster by the John, Matter out of Mortain specific ten years in past times. Such as considering the rumours surrounding a prospective affair ranging from John and you may his first wife Constance!